Saturday, August 22, 2015

Dress Code vs. Behavior, Round 2; The Discussion Continues

Welcome back! Since this subject generated so much interest and discussion I had to break it into to two blog posts; this one is pretty long-but interesting. 

As promised here is the next installment of my blog; talking more about the Dress Code vs. Behavior. Because there was not a response to the letters sent to the school, I took the opportunity to bring this conversation to twitter by engaging a local radio talk show host on twitter.

First; twitter is nuts to keep up with on the conversation; second I took a chance, because anytime you engage with an outspoken person like the one I interacted with—anything can happen.  Wires get crossed, and being eloquent with minimal space is not always successful.

Dale Jackson is a local radio talk show host, and he addressed a dress code issue here in Alabama:

He was not supportive of the above.

Now let me explain Dale Jackson;  he is described as the “Attack Machine” (His website is named this). He makes it his mission to address issues and call people out. He also admits he is a devil’s advocate—he takes opposite sides and actively says things to get a rise out of people. This makes for lively discussion and entertainment and you will learn, brutally at times, if you are committed to your argument.

On Friday August 14th, 2015 I decided to address the subject about dress code and behavior with Dale Jackson on twitter knowing he was going to be unpredictable. He was awesome in his role. No, he didn’t support me at times, but it didn’t bother me. There are lots of things he does which I don’t support. This is why they call it a discussion—sort of. Interestingly I didn’t get emotionally stressed or attached, but he did make some people VERY angry.

Here is the transcript-(copying and posting was a pain, but I have it all on twitter) so I am transcribing it, and adding clarification off to the side in a different color. 

Let me tell you this again—I KNEW I was inserting myself into a conversation he’d already decided against—and wires were crossed. Making things clear on Twitter can be –difficult and you can see the changes. 

The main players:
MVFreeman @MVFree (me) Abbreviating to MVF
Side players: For privacy sake, I gave them my own code names. You can find them if you look.
Random1Engaged with Dale Jackson and had some interesting points.
Other2 –came on later---and was decidedly unimpressed.

TWITTER TRANSCRIPT (with notations/additions in red)
Me: Here I began the conversation.

MVF: You touched on the dress code this a.m. @TheDaleJackson I’m all for reasonable standards but not blaming girls for boys poor behavior. Here I jump in…

MVF: I am irritated at the assumption boys can’t control themselves and girls are to blame #dresscode  Below he starts to answer me. 

  • ·         TheDaleJackson: To MVF;  this idea that dress codes are because boys are unable to control themselves is like saying “teach boys not to rape”. Nonesense   Initially we both agree. 

MVF: to DaleJackson;  agreed which is why I’m angry! That’s the message my teens walked away with at an assembly separating girls & boys

  • ·         TheDaleJackson to MVF the code in question says no leggings as sole covering, seems pretty simple mom is a wannabe social justice warrior.  Unfortunately he’s still on the dress code—I’m on the behavior. I brought my own agenda and because I didn’t clarify it wires got crossed (I tried) but no matter, it was interesting to see what happened.

So the questions began….
·         MVF to DaleJackson: I have no problem with dress code, not fighting that, fighting behavior as the justification.
o   Dale Jackson: RT @MVF  I have no problem with the dress code-not fighting that. Fighting behavior as the justification//DJ  Why? Pointless quibble  Tries to irritate—because to him this issue wasn’t important.
o   MVF to Dale: Why? Its ok a female gets harassed because she distracted him with what she wore? She deserved it? Stress conduct!  So I called him on it.
o   Dale Jackson: RT @MVF It’s ok a female man gets harassed because she distracted him with what she wore? //DJ you wrote this on purpose, be embarrassed   Since I was trying to clarify and get him to respond—lol, I wasn’t embarrassed.
o   MVF to Dale: Just clarifying what you said…again hold people accountable for their conduct.

@TheDaleJackson: RT @MVF I’m all for reasonable standards but not for blaming girls for boys poor behavior//DJ: that’s not happening       This is happening see my answers below, it’s very real, but our wires were crossed but he may believe this. That’s fine. 

  • ·         MVF: To DaleJackson actually my daughters were told in assembly what they wore within the dress code (skinny jeans/shirts)distracted the boys.  True this is what they was told to my daughters.
  •  ·         @TheDaleJackson: to MVF Society as a whole is not responsible for a few bad actors and whoever said dress codes are about boys hormones is an idiot. At least he understood this. And this is true. 

  • ·         Random1 to TheDaleJackson but if its teachers/principal saying it, they send a direct message to girls that they are responsible for boys @MVF

  • ·         Random1 to MVF: it makes me SO angry. I have boys and it’s insulting to men to men tos ay that boys are unable to control themselves. Damaging to girls.

  • ·         MVF to Random1:  see,I agree!

  • ·         MVF: @TheDaleJackson and one was told they should save their curves felon (for) their husbands  This was told to my daughters.

MVF: to TheDaleJackson; So the intent was well meaning-the delivery of it sends the wrong message—girls distract, and boys uncontrolled.  I truly think they (the school adminstrators) tried to do this right, but did it all wrong—and we should pay attention to this.

  • ·         The Dale Jackson to MVF: if we agree the intent was good, I don’t really care if we’re gonna pretend the message was off.  I’m thinking he’s still thinking I’m talking about the Grissom case, but I’m not. Maybe he does actually not care this is being expressed—and this is important to know.

  • ·         MVF to Dale:  Message off? Maybe for that other mom. For me? We follow the code & still telling girls distract boys? No. Not Cool.

Dale Jackson to MVF Has your husband ever looked at you & said something that implied he was distracted by your beauty? This stuff is mindless PC crap   I laughed at this. And I find it funny he thought it was mindless PC crap—I don’t think so.

  • ·         MVF to Dale: You’ll have to ask him!  It’s simple-behave appropriately done. Not pc. We are not animals, is that pc?

  • ·         Dale Jackson RT to MVF; you’ll have to ask him! It’s simple—behave appropriately. Done.//DJ Why didn’t someone tell Ray Rice not to hit his wife?! Again this made me laugh, how was THIS part of the conversation? I figured he was trying to throw me off.

  • ·          MVF to Dale: Did they? Maybe they did

  • ·         Dale Jackson to MVF; OK so someone may have told Ray Rice not hit women. Didn’t seem to work. So we don’t warn women that guys like Ray Rice exists. *still wondering why he brought this up….

  • ·         MVF to Dale: We do warn them. It’s appropriate conduct on both sides. That’s what we need to look at. Not sending mixed msg.

To me—I’m wondering for a guy who really supports critical thinking, why he thinks this belief and telling girls you distract, and assuming boys can’t conduct themselves appropriately is appropriate. 

Note: Below is an interaction between another participant about this standard, and Dale Jackson. I kept it in because you can see how he pushes her buttons---

Dale Jackson; to Random1We are talking about dress code here not assaulting young ladies, Perspective would help @MVF

  • ·         Random1 to DaleJackson; dress codes that insinuate women are in charge of men’s behavior toward them are a sort of institutional violence. I thought this was very interesting

  • ·         Random1 to DaleJackson it’s a way of controlling women’s bodies. Sends message to boys they aren’t responsible. All part of the same system.  Again very interesting—and something we need to think about.

  • ·         DaleJackson Does @Random1 understand how absurd this seems to people “Dress codes{…} Institutional violence   Here he starts to push buttons.

  • ·         Random1 to DaleJackson yep so ridiculous. Not all informed by my PhD or 10 yrs of studying theory and sociological effects of language.

Random1 to DaleJackson Schools want dress code ? Fine. Should be equal and not based on boys being distracted. Boys _responsible 4 themselves

  • ·         DaleJackson: to Random1 Quote: It’s a way of controlling women’s bodies. Sends message to boys they aren’t responsible. //DJ: You are a serious person

  • ·         DaleJackson: to Random1 QUOTE: School want dresscode? Fine should be equal//DJ: How about no dresses, skirts or leggings at all?

  • ·         Random1 to DaleJackson slippery slope fallacies are poor rhetorical turns. Shows weakness in argument.

  • ·         DaleJackson;  to Random1 QUOTE Here you go if you you’re unfamiliar; //DJ I am aware of this garbage, thanks

Me: I thought this a very interesting argument-and see how Dale just pokes her here and there. Still, it doesn’t detract from the overall issue—what ARE we teaching our kids. And ultimately we are not holding people accountable for their actions. 

Finally, the last hurrah---

Other2: to TheDaleJackson, Random1, MVF: anybody want to tell me what I missed this pretty way out in left field

  • ·         MVF to Other2: Just discussing #Dresscode vs behavior. It’s a lively discussion

  • ·         Dale Jackson: RT: Other2, TheDaleJakson, Random1, MVF:  anybody want to tell me what I missed // DJ: Dress codes are attacks on women I guess.

  • ·         MVF to Dale: I stand corrected & clarifying I’m arguing appropriate behavior on both sides—Implying clothing causes bad behavior—no

  • ·         Other2: to DaleJackson, Random1,MVF; I see clearly just another reason to detract from major issues  *sigh*

  • ·         MVF to Other2: Oh heck I’ll talk about major stuff, this was an interesting discussion

Of course: There were NO takers on any other subjects---and that is sad—because I could talk about any number of things going on. And what are THE major issues? The State Budget? The fact we losing our freedoms? I dunno—none of them would address this. I think they will content themselves that I am any number of ignorant, PC, vapid kind of person. *shrugs* IF it gets the discussion started—bring it on.

Just as I was finishing this blog--- a new story came out, in fact two I am going to add here and expound on in a later post:
I mention this—because I do know Dale Jackson made a comment about those of us discussing the dress code—thought we’d be totally against it.
I’m not. If this is what THEY want to do, more power to them. If this is what they think will work or is important—as adults they should do it. Should they be harassed for it? NO. If you don’t like it, you are offended by this, don’t watch it, but considering all of the comments—there is a lot of watching.
*shakes head* I am about freedom; and ultimately behavior. Conduct yourself like a civilized human and I’m fine. 
And as an interesting side note; two females pass ranger school---I would love to meet them, can you imagine?

So what are your comments about the dress code/behavior?  Good? Bad? Indifferent?  I want discussion---that’s what is needed. 

Housekeeping: Remember, I enjoy discussion even if it opposes my view, be civilized or I will delete the comments. Thank you!

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